gun control

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

gun control

Post by 89whiteandnerdy on Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:02 pm

2nd Amendment to the Constitution: The Right to Bear Arms
A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

This seems pretty straightforward to me. What argument do the gun control supporters have that would overpower this? Why do they think they are right and can win?

89whiteandnerdy
Senior Moderator
Senior Moderator

Posts : 149
Joined : 30 Nov 2007
Age : 18
Location : North Carolina

Back to top Go down

Re: gun control

Post by CheeseKing on Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:42 pm

They simply discount the Constitution and resort to methods such the hegal dialectic and push and make us compromise, giving up one type of gun, then another. Banning AK47s, later SKs, then soon 45s, etc. They win if we compromise. Never compromise.

CheeseKing
Experienced Contributor
Experienced Contributor

Posts : 108
Joined : 30 Nov 2007
Age : 18
Location : California

Back to top Go down

Re: gun control

Post by 89whiteandnerdy on Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:44 pm

yup, you're probably right. And yes, compromise means loss. It's happened way too many times in history.
J. Tillett
Forum Moderator

"Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition." -Howell M. Forgy, chaplain on a U.S. cruiser, Pearl Harbor, 12/7/41

89whiteandnerdy
Senior Moderator
Senior Moderator

Posts : 149
Joined : 30 Nov 2007
Age : 18
Location : North Carolina

Back to top Go down

Re: gun control

Post by addo1 on Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:24 am

We have earned this right. We should keep it. Many lives have been shed for freedom, we need to keep our dear freedom. We need to not abuse our freedom though. Hillary is working on taking away this freedom from us. Dont let that happen, so help us God.

addo1
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 55
Joined : 07 Dec 2007
Location : Rockwall, Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: gun control

Post by YoungStonewall on Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:57 pm

The 2nd Amendment was intended to allow the general populace to remain armed as well as or better than the government controlled military.

This was intended to deter any foreign invaders and to insure the central government and state governments would never even dream of any form of tyranny.

All forms of weapons should be available to anyone who has the money and desire to own them.

However our current societal state of affairs, and lack of personal responsibility would make this extremely unwise to implement today.

YoungStonewall


Last edited by on Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:41 am; edited 1 time in total

YoungStonewall
High Lord Protector Against Sanity
High Lord Protector Against Sanity

Posts : 171
Joined : 09 Dec 2007
Age : 25
Location : I have gone to find myself. If I should come back before I return...keep me here.

Back to top Go down

Re: gun control

Post by Legolas Greenleaf on Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:53 pm

What do you think of permits? Is this a good part time solution?
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-19

Legolas Greenleaf
Experienced Contributor
Experienced Contributor

Posts : 144
Joined : 16 Dec 2007
Age : 18
Location : North Carolina

Back to top Go down

Re: gun control

Post by BrianEschen on Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:53 am

God commands all Christians to be well-armed and trained. flower

BrianEschen
Contributor
Contributor

Posts : 98
Joined : 10 Dec 2007

Back to top Go down

Re: gun control

Post by ElizabethBennet on Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:52 am

Do you think that goes for women, too? Wink

The Constitution clearly states our right to bear arms - I think gun control supporters are fighting a loosing battle.
~Miss M.

“Politics is no savior, but it will be saved.” - Douglas Wilson

ElizabethBennet
Contributor
Contributor

Posts : 94
Joined : 06 Dec 2007
Age : 17
Location : North Carolina

Back to top Go down

Re: gun control

Post by TheWylff on Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:10 pm

Just because God commands us to "be well armed and trained" doesn't mean we have to learn karate and buy a gun. I have no intention, whatsoever, of ever owning a modern firearm, ever. Period. That's not to say I can't use my fists or a mediaeval knife.
"For it is not for honour, or glory, or riches that we fight—but for freedom only, which NO good man surrenders, but with his life!" ~Robert de Bruce

"Freeeedoooooommmm!!!" ~Sir William Wallace

"Sons of Gondor! Of Rohan! My brothers. ...But it is not this day! An hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of men comes crashing down! But it is not this day! This day we fight!..." ~Aragorn

TheWylff
Experienced Contributor
Experienced Contributor

Posts : 117
Joined : 11 Dec 2007
Location : Talamh Duine, Mainland, Highland Kyndar region

Back to top Go down

Re: gun control

Post by 89whiteandnerdy on Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:20 pm

I got this off the NRA web site, any comments? They seem to have a good idea of what we're up against and the history of the issue.

The Second Amendment

The Second Amendment guarantees: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

This guarantees a citizen's right to keep and bear arms for personal defense. The revolutionary experience caused our forebears to address a second concern -- the ability of Americans to maintain a citizen militia. The Founding Fathers trusted an armed citizenry as the best safeguard against the possibility of a tyrannical government.

James Madison, author of the Second Amendment, wrote that Americans had "the advantage of being armed," that was lacking in other nations, where "the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." Patrick Henry proclaimed the "great object is that every man be armed. . . . Everyone who is able may have a gun." The Second Amendment was then, as it is today, about freedom and the means to protect it.

In United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939), the Supreme Court refused to take judicial notice that a short-barreled shotgun was useful for militia purposes. Nowhere did the court hold that an individual does not have a right to keep and bear arms. In United States v. Gomez, 81 F.3d 846, 850 n. 7 (9th Cir. 1996), Judge Kozinski opined that "The Second Amendment embodies the right to defend oneself and one’s home against physical attack." In United States v. Hutzell, 217 F.3d 966, 969 (8th Cir. 2000), the court held that "... an individual's right to bear arms is constitutionally protected, see United States v. Miller ...." In United States v. Emerson, 270 F.3d 203 (5th Cir. 2001), the court examined United States v. Miller and held: "We reject the collective rights and sophisticated collective rights models for interpreting the Second Amendment. We hold, consistent with Miller, that it protects the right of individuals ... to privately possess and bear their own firearms ...."

The U. S. Supreme Court has recently recognized the Second Amendment as an important individual right. Planned Parenthood v. Casey, 505 U.S. 833 (1992); United States v. Verdugo-Urquidez, 494 U.S. 259 (1991).

On December 17, 2004, the U.S. Department of Justice published an exhaustive Second Amendment memorandum. It concludes without reservation that "the Second Amendment secures a personal right of individuals, not a collective right that may only be invoked by a State or a quasi-collective right restricted to those persons who serve in organized militia units." http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/2004opinions.htm

The Founding Fathers distrusted a government that wouldn't trust its people. To fulfill the promise of the Declaration of Independence, the authors of the U.S. Constitution and its Bill of Rights made it clear that individual rights were paramount. The Bill of Rights, wrote Madison, was "calculated to secure the personal rights of the people."

Some claim that banning only certain firearms does not constitute an infringement of Second Amendment rights. That measured ploy is not new. George Mason exposed it at Virginia's constitutional convention in 1788: "[W]hen the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man . . . to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually."

Our founders risked their lives to create a free nation, and they guaranteed freedom as the birthright of American citizens through the Bill of Rights. The Second Amendment remains the first right among equals, because it is the one we turn to when all else fails.
J. Tillett
Forum Moderator

"Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition." -Howell M. Forgy, chaplain on a U.S. cruiser, Pearl Harbor, 12/7/41

89whiteandnerdy
Senior Moderator
Senior Moderator

Posts : 149
Joined : 30 Nov 2007
Age : 18
Location : North Carolina

Back to top Go down

Re: gun control

Post by Just Me on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:15 pm

Although I think guns are great... think about the difference that would be happening in Kenya right now if guns were in the hands of the general populace. Only 800 people have died in the last several weeks of rioting and ethnic cleansing. However, if the population had guns, I guarantee the number would have been in the 10 of thousands.

Just Me
Newbie
Newbie

Posts : 6
Joined : 22 Dec 2007

Back to top Go down

Re: gun control

Post by YoungStonewall on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:10 pm

However, if the population had guns, I guarantee the number would have been in the 10 of thousands.


If the population were armed the stong would have no advantage over the weak, and far less violence would occur in the first place.

A person with a firearms is 80% effective in accomplishing their goal, whether their goal is rape, murder, theft etc. or defending themselves or their family.

A gun functions as a deterent in much the same way as nuclear weapons. If everyone has them it levels the playing field, and makes the evildoer think twice about attacking someone, he has no idea if they are armed.
_______________________
YoungStonewall

"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
Liberty is two wolves attempting to have a sheep for dinner and finding a well-informed, well-armed sheep."

YoungStonewall
High Lord Protector Against Sanity
High Lord Protector Against Sanity

Posts : 171
Joined : 09 Dec 2007
Age : 25
Location : I have gone to find myself. If I should come back before I return...keep me here.

Back to top Go down

Re: gun control

Post by BrianEschen on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:36 pm

Just Me wrote:Although I think guns are great... think about the difference that would be happening in Kenya right now if guns were in the hands of the general populace. Only 800 people have died in the last several weeks of rioting and ethnic cleansing. However, if the population had guns, I guarantee the number would have been in the 10 of thousands.


This a common fallacy that is propounded by anti-gun activists. History however does not bear this out. A precursor to the slaughter of a country's citizens is the removal of the right of those citizens to keep and bear arms. The proper use of guns prevents ethnic cleansing. Frontline Fellowship is a missions organization that has had much experience regarding this issue with their missions projects across Africa. If you want to see, across the boards, what gun free zones are like visit their website. For an interesting article see http://www.christianaction.org.za/firearmnews/2005-01_CriminalsPreferUnarmedVictims.htm
While it sounds plausible that it is safer to have an unarmed populace, the opposite is actually the case as evidenced again and again throughout history. Our founders understood this clearly, hence the 2nd amendment. afro

BrianEschen
Contributor
Contributor

Posts : 98
Joined : 10 Dec 2007

Back to top Go down

Re: gun control

Post by bob4242 on Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:33 pm

BrianEschen wrote: A precursor to the slaughter of a country's citizens is the removal of the right of those citizens to keep and bear arms.


Hey, I'm new here, but had to jump in on this one. Brian, if a country's removal of the right to bear arms is a precursor to the slaughter of its citizens, then why haven't we seen the systematic slaughter of the citizens of Great Britain? They've had strong gun control laws for years. . . Just curious.

Also, I wanted to open up a new question for discussion: Where do you draw the line? Everyone believes in gun control, but we have different opinions about where to draw that line. For instance, I don't think any of us believes that the citizens of the US should be allowed to bear nuclear weapons. So, we all believe in gun control. Where, then, do you draw the line? Handguns? Full-auto guns? Grenade launchers? Fully armed Apaches? Abrams? Tomahawks? What should a government ban from being used by its citizens?

bob4242
Loafer
Loafer

Posts : 4
Joined : 31 Jan 2008

Back to top Go down

Re: gun control

Post by YoungStonewall on Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:24 pm

The flaw in your question is that you assume there is a line.

Currently private corporations within the US own and operate armed attack helicopters, armored vehicles, and have large stockpiles of machine guns, grenades, and assault rifles. All of this is legal.

If you have a private trust or corporation you can have all of this too.

What I am saying is that all law abiding US citizens should be able to own whatever they can afford. If you want a machine gun or a supressor (sometimes mistakenly refered to as a silencer) you should be able to buy one without giving up any of your Bill of Rights.
_______________________
YoungStonewall

"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
Liberty is two wolves attempting to have a sheep for dinner and finding a well-informed, well-armed sheep."

YoungStonewall
High Lord Protector Against Sanity
High Lord Protector Against Sanity

Posts : 171
Joined : 09 Dec 2007
Age : 25
Location : I have gone to find myself. If I should come back before I return...keep me here.

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


Permissions of this forum:

You cannot reply to topics in this forum