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Post by 89whiteandnerdy on Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:14 pm

So I was in class today, and the speaker was talking about how we are fired up as Americans about "change", and "political activism" and all this other good stuff. However, he raised the point that we as Christians should be "changing" OURSELVES first, and witnessing to non-believers in order to spread the Gospel, which WILL impact how this country is run. The political climate is an indicator of our culture, and our culture can only be healed through the influence of the Holy Spirit. So it is our duty to spread the Gospel, and let God work in our country to bring about the revival and change that we all desire.

Comments?

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Post by ElizabethBennet on Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:48 pm

I completely agree! We need to start with changing the people (ourselves included), and then everything else will follow. This is not to say that we shouldn't be engaged in politics, but that politics is not a means to an end. Change must begin with ourselves, our families, and then radiate outwards to those around us.
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Post by TheWylff on Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:47 am

That sounds like Obama. He's the one who wants change. Go Obama! cheers Change! Hope! Future! Same gospel; different preachers. World peace!
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Post by ElizabethBennet on Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:26 am

Everyone is for change - it's not limited to just Obama. In fact, McCain has begun to run on "change". It is all in what kind of change you are wanting.
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Post by BrianEschen on Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:22 pm

ElizabethBennet wrote:I completely agree! We need to start with changing the people (ourselves included), and then everything else will follow. This is not to say that we shouldn't be engaged in politics, but that politics is not a means to an end. Change must begin with ourselves, our families, and then radiate outwards to those around us.

A hearty Amen!
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Post by Legolas Greenleaf on Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:12 pm

89whiteandnerdy wrote:So I was in class today, and the speaker was talking about how we are fired up as Americans about "change", and "political activism" and all this other good stuff. However, he raised the point that we as Christians should be "changing" OURSELVES first, and witnessing to non-believers in order to spread the Gospel, which WILL impact how this country is run. The political climate is an indicator of our culture, and our culture can only be healed through the influence of the Holy Spirit. So it is our duty to spread the Gospel, and let God work in our country to bring about the revival and change that we all desire.

Comments?

I'm drawing my ideas partly from a book I read called, Earth Restored: Calling the Church to a new Christian Activism.
While this sounds great we need to be very careful here. There can sometimes be among Christians this notion that we should only be concerned with "the great commission." That we should not care about political matters, saving souls is the only purpose Christians should strive for. These Christians ignore, separate, and/or down play the creation mandate that God gave Adam, that we should fill the earth and subdue it. This is a serious error and can lead to all sorts of problems. There becomes this mindset that it is wrong or worldly to seek to use political power to bring Christian values to a nation. Many times there is an argument that good laws won't do any good without good people. To some degree this is certainly true. However, we can see from experience that laws can go a long way toward bringing good in a society. For instance, if you outlaw murder; it certainly doesn't stop all murder but murder is certainly reduced considerably. We see that when there are no laws wickedness is increased, abortion for example is legal in this country and we see it happening on large scale which has also increased sexual immorality. As Paul said, the law is not needed for those who obey it because they already want to obey it; the law is for those who do not obey it. The problem is many Christians sounding very pious, pooh-pooh the idea of working to bring politics in accordance with God's Word. Let me tell you, politics is not going to reform by its self. Was it easier to evangelize when we had more Biblical laws or now, when we have less, and a society as a whole that is immoral as a result?
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Post by BrianEschen on Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:53 pm

Legolas Greenleaf wrote:I'm drawing my ideas partly from a book I read called, Earth Restored: Calling the Church to a new Christian Activism.
While this sounds great we need to be very careful here. There can sometimes be among Christians this notion that we should only be concerned with "the great commission." That we should not care about political matters, saving souls is the only purpose Christians should strive for. These Christians ignore, separate, and/or down play the creation mandate that God gave Adam, that we should fill the earth and subdue it. This is a serious error and can lead to all sorts of problems. There becomes this mindset that it is wrong or worldly to seek to use political power to bring Christian values to a nation. Many times there is an argument that good laws won't do any good without good people. To some degree this is certainly true. However, we can see from experience that laws can go a long way toward bringing good in a society. For instance, if you outlaw murder; it certainly doesn't stop all murder but murder is certainly reduced considerably. We see that when there are no laws wickedness is increased, abortion for example is legal in this country and we see it happening on large scale which has also increased sexual immorality. As Paul said, the law is not needed for those who obey it because they already want to obey it; the law is for those who do not obey it. The problem is many Christians sounding very pious, pooh-pooh the idea of working to bring politics in accordance with God's Word. Let me tell you, politics is not going to reform by its self. Was it easier to evangelize when we had more Biblical laws or now, when we have less, and a society as a whole that is immoral as a result?

I would agree with you that Christians need to be involved in politics and reforming our society based on the Word of God. However, I believe that one of the greatest problems the church is dealing with in our country is a reliance upon political solutions. Why do I say this, and how does this manifest itself? A good example is the average Christian's willingness to ignore clearly set forth commands in scripture regarding how to vote and settling for, "the lesser of two evils." Instead of following God's commands, well meaning Christians will focus on one issue (usually the murder of the unborn) while leaving off all other issues as if they are of no or little importance. I would dare say that this principle would not be applied in church government, yet when it comes to civil government Christians are apt to leave it to the realm of "indifference." Why the change? Does Christ just rule in the family and church? Has He left the rule of the civil magistrate to political expediency? I would answer with a resounding no.

My point in affirming the need for reformation is that the church in her compromise in this area is proclaiming a belief in man-made solutions for a spiritual problem. We need to start using the weapons that God has given us according to God's ways. One of those weapons is the ability in our country to take part in electing and even being elected to office. In this though we must do it God's way. The church as a whole does not follow God's plan in this matter. Hence the need for repentance and reformation. And remember that the foundation for all this is personal reformation. I desire to see the church once again proclaim with a unified voice that "Jehovah is our lawgiver, Jehovah is our judge, Jehovah is our King, He will save."
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