Public Education

I'm interested to find out what the opinions of this group are on public education.

Should it be government funded?
Should it be mandatory?
Should there a curriculum set by the government?
Should it be government controlled?
If so State or Federal government?

Keep in mind what a society would be like without literacy. Imagine what we'd do if only 3/4 the adults could read. Imagine the changes that might have to take place if only half the adults could multiply and divide. I don't know if you've ever been to say a small town in the mountains. If you have you'll have more of an idea what might happen if the majority of society was uneducated.

These are a few of my musings. I will express my own views when I get some replies.

A few thoughts on education . . .

Our nation was more literate before widespread public education.

Public education is not about education or literacy.

Public education is a euphamism for stealing from some to pay for the education of others.

I disagree with most government funding, because it robs froms from all to give to some. I have been brought up in a public school and have put up with onesided, biased, garbage. They have been trying to indoctrinate us in the ways of the world, trying to make it look like its ok to be a homosexual, trying to convince us we evolved from mush, trying convince us that our nation was founded by deists and that christians are very silly people, etc, etc. No, public education should not be mandatory. Look at the cases like People v. DeJonge where courts ruled that parents have a right to choose how their children should learn. I say vote for better school board members that can vote and change the curriculum of the systems. The Federal Government is far too big and should never have any control over the schools. Get them out of state affairs. I say "no" as my response to each of your questions, even the last one

Legolas Greenleaf wrote:I'm interested to find out what the opinions of this group are on public education.

Should it be government funded?
Should it be mandatory?
Should there a curriculum set by the government?
Should it be government controlled?
If so State or Federal government?

Keep in mind what a society would be like without literacy. Imagine what we'd do if only 3/4 the adults could read. Imagine the changes that might have to take place if only half the adults could multiply and divide. I don't know if you've ever been to say a small town in the mountains. If you have you'll have more of an idea what might happen if the majority of society was uneducated.

These are a few of my musings. I will express my own views when I get some replies.

Imagine what would happen if those abilities were earned for each individual who wanted them rather than given. It's been my experience that things given tend to be taken for granted and not held in high esteem. You can still get through high school without knowing how to read, making me pay for that seems like stealing to me.

While I honestly don't like gov't funded public education at all I don't think it's ever going away. A twist on the idea that I would find more paletable would be scholerships for students that prove there desire to learn. And I would have to say that the school system would need to be privately owned, like charter schools, because the profit motive does wonders for weeding out inefficiencies and poor workers.

Should it be government funded?
Not at all. The christian schools seem to be doing fine without big brother's help. If I want to sponsor someone's education that's up to me. I want to choose the person.

Should it be mandatory?
Absolutely not. If I don't want to go to school and get a good job that should be up to me. I'm home schooled and my dad was home schooled. We do the "relaxed" home school method. Basically you learn where your interests are. For instance my next younger brother (TheWylff) likes to write. So for fun he and his cousin 3 years ago started a weekly 4 page lotr email newsletter. That was at 13. Now he does a monthly 16+ page literary newsletter which he sends out to well over 100 subscribers. He also is working on editing a 500 page fantasy novel he just wrote. Can you say english curriculum? Of course we have the basic required subjects, math, science, history... Thankfully NC has some of the best home school laws in the nation. We are blessed to live here. Anyways...

Should there a curriculum set by the government?
No! They shouldn't fund it or have anything to do with the things taught in it.

Should it be government controlled?
No again. I guess this was a rather redundant question.

If so State or Federal government?
Neither. We don't need the government to mess up the school by getting involved.

I don't believe we would become a non educated society. There would be a demand for educated employees which would make people want to get educated so they could get a job. If people had a problem paying for school the church that they are a member of should take care of them. If they weren't a member they have more serious issues that not being educated to consider.
There's my 2 cents of fire and brimstone.

Public eduation...

Public education is so bad right now, we may as well be illiterate. Most of the people coming out of public schools go to work at Mcdonalds or some low-paying job. Which then makes the government feel sorry for what they've done in their public schools, so they raise minimum wage so everyone can get a lot of money. (except for business owners, of course)

The government was better when there was a king who ruled the land. Unfortunately, modern man has made that idea impossible. No, there oughtn't to be anything government funded. As far as mandatory education goes, probably not. The government shouldn't be able to take your child away just because he isn't in school, that's awful. So no government running our lives and no money from them (we don't want their garbage money).

So here we go . . . is it legitimate? Reformable? Is it a valid option for Christian parents to send their children to as "missionaries?"

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BrianEschen wrote:So here we go . . . is it legitimate? Reformable? Is it a valid option for Christian parents to send their children to as "missionaries?"

I will tackle the first part of your question first (although I suspect you already know my answer). First we would have to deal with the fact that the government has to break the eighth commandment in order to fund these public schools , but I won't deal with that here. As I stated in another thread, public schools are inherently evil because the civil government was never given the authority to educate children. Even if the schools were somehow "Christian" and not humanistic, they would still be operating in contradiction to the Bible. Something that is right and good can be wrong if done by someone operating outside the sphere of authority God has given him. Example: It is right and good that a convicted murderer is put to death, but it would be wrong for me to walk up and shoot someone who is a convicted murderer. Why? The Bible says, "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed". I am being obedient then when I execute a murderer...right? No. As an individual I have not been given this authority by God. The power of the sword has been given to the civil government (Romans 13:4). Likewise, if I happen to be out shopping in the grocery store and I notice someones children misbehaving, can I go up and discipline these stranger's children? After all foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child but the rod of discipline drives it from him. I should go up and use the rod on these children, right? This too would be wrong since God did not give me authority over other people's children.

Something that is right when done by the wrong person/institution (as determined by the Word of God) is wrong. We all agree that the education of our children is very important (I hope). But it should only be done by those people or institutions to whom God has given this authority. My conclusion then is that the only valid reform for government run schools is to do away with them.

So, Messire jeschen, would you be in the opinion of mind that those who, out of necessity, must send their children to such public organisations, are sinning? Would you like to start shelling out quid to all the single mothers who have to go out and work to earn enough to put bread on the table, and have to, of necessity, put their children in school?

I hear all these 100% positive assertions about "government schools being inherently evil" but 0% of anything backing that up. Where does the Bible forbid it? Do parents ALONE have the responsibility? What about colleges? Are colleges funded by the government wrong? What about Christian schools? They are not necessarily run by the parents. What about private schools that are funded by other-than-parent people as well as parents? Is homeschooling the only biblical way? I need some answers to these assertions. What you are saying is that it is a terrible sin to have public school. Yet, messire, it has been around for over a thousand years. The government provides the schools and paid for them so that the people of the kingdom could learn and thereby grow up to further aid the kingdom—rather than being ignorant. Just because the government is funding it does not mean it is wrong. I can find that no where in my Bible. Perhaps thou hast a differing version?

Respectfully irate,
Wylff

TheWylff wrote:So, Messire jeschen, would you be in the opinion of mind that those who, out of necessity, must send their children to such public organisations, are sinning?

I was actually talking about the institution itself not the people who send their children there. It is wrong for a government to be in the business of educating children. I will respond to the rest of your post later when I have more time...I just didn't want you to think I was neglecting you . Thank you for your questions. This would be a pretty boring forum if we all agreed with each other, wouldn't it?

jeschen wrote:

TheWylff wrote:So, Messire jeschen, would you be in the opinion of mind that those who, out of necessity, must send their children to such public organisations, are sinning?

I was actually talking about the institution itself not the people who send their children there. It is wrong for a government to be in the business of educating children. I will respond to the rest of your post later when I have more time...I just didn't want you to think I was neglecting you . Thank you for your questions. This would be a pretty boring forum if we all agreed with each other, wouldn't it?

I don't know whether I agree with you or not. That is why I was asking the questions. If you have a biblical basis for what you say—I'm happy to agree. I just realise how important it is not to just make statements that are not backed up. I frequently say things that I cannot/have not backed up, and I was mainly wondering what your reasons were. I am in an official position of Devil's Advocate (DA for short), and thought I would just start myself and others thinking. I do believe that the public schools are evil today. I don't believe they are inherently evil, but they have been perverted by modern man.

TheWylff wrote: Just because the government is funding it does not mean it is wrong. I can find that no where in my Bible.
Wylff

A good description for the role of civil government can be found in Romans 13:1-7 (especially v.3,4) and 1 Peter 2:13-17 (especially v. 14). When reading these passages ask some questions: who ordained civil government (Rm 13:1)?; and what is the role of civil government? After reading these, what do you think the role of civil government is as defined by God? Can you find any other verses that give additional tasks to the civil government?

A common misconception is that if it is not specifically forbidden in the Bible it must be ok to do. Let's go ahead and follow this through and see if it works out. The Bible does not expressly forbid the civil government to raise children. Would it be fine if, in its infinite wisdom, the civil government decided it could do a better job of raising children than parents and started taking children away? ''Let every soul be subject to the higher powers..." (Rm 13:1). What if the church decided it wanted to start executing convicted murderers? This is not expressly forbidden in the Bible. What if I, as an individual, wanted to excommunicate an unrepentant church member from the congregation? This too is not expressly forbidden in the Bible. The point of all this is: ultimate authority resides with God ("...for there is no power but of God...") not with any earthly individual or institution. The authority that resides with earthly individuals and institutions is, therefore, delegated and limited by the One who has ultimate authority. For an earthly institution to claim authority over an area not delegated to it is to attempt to usurp God's ultimate authority. Remember what our Lord said in the gospels "Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God those that are God's" (Mark 12:17).

TheWylff wrote: Perhaps thou hast a differing version?

Wylff

As to the version of the Bible that I use...please refer to the Westminster Confession of Faith Chapter 1, Section 8.

The Westminster Divines wrote:The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which at the time of writing of it was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and by His singular care and providence kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical (Mat 5:18 ); so as, in all controversies of religion, the Church is finally to appeal unto them (Isa_8:20; Joh_5:39, Joh_5:46; Act_15:15). But, because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded, in the fear of God, to read and search them (Joh_5:39), therefore they are to be translated into the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come (1Co_14:6, 1Co_14:9, 1Co_14:11, 1Co_14:12, 1Co_14:24, 1Co_14:27, 1Co_14:28 ), that the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship Him in an acceptable manner (Col_3:16); and, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, may have hope (Rom_15:4).

My translation is in the "vulgar language" of the nation in which I dwell.


Respectfully serene,
Messire Jeff