The Truth about 9/11

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YoungStonewall wrote:

Whatever.
I don't really care who it was. Ok there's some questions in your mind. That's fine with me.

This makes me sick.

This is exactly what those responsible want you to think.

SHAME SHAME SHAME

Your government had a hand in the murder of thousands of innocent people, and all you can say is I DON'T CARE.

Pathetic.

Alright we go right on with you trying to convince us that the US government had a hand in it. Of course I care that people died. I'm not convinced it was our own government though. I think you've been reading to many conspiracy theories. However I'm happy to be convinced by solid evidence.

All right folks, let us stop and think. We have all studied history haven't we? Now, what have we learned from history? Anthing? Think about Hitler. He was insane and his goals and agenda were "unthinkable." But the unthinkable is now history. How can that be? I'll tell you how. Millions of decent lawabiding citizens were mildly disinterested, gullible, lazy, and said, "It is not my responsibility," or "if this was something to be concerned about my government or the media would tell me so." Sinful people are unwilling to take individual responsibility and ownership. That demands too much effort. Sad to say, I hear the same kind of apathy coming from you people on this list.

In the USA we have a Constitution that says we the people are the governement. If the people do not rise up and hold the elected officals accountable, then they will continue to move a head with whatever agenda seems best for them.

Watch the video at the link below and then come back and continue this conversation. Those who deny that there could be a conspiracy unfolding right now know nothing, NOTHING! about history. This, my friends is exactly what the men who seek power and grab it are counting on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77ZXo

I don't think anyone's denying that there *could* be a conspiracy (I'm definitely not). However, there are some of us who haven't been convinced yet.

So, off to watch the movie...

OK, well, I couldn't watch the whole thing yet, because for some reason it freezes at 49 seconds in. I'll keep trying.

Definitely interesting. Have you read Larry Burkett's The Illuminati? It's written a while back and says in 2000 that will happen. In the story the bad guys cut off the money from all christians. Thankfully the computer wiz who designed the world bank system comes to their side. Once he sees what they're using his program for he helps the christians to over throw the bad government. Mars Diaries by Sigmund Brouwer also describes a time when there is one world government.

This does make you want to question and look into things. However one video on YouTube doesn't make me believe everything on it. You could record anything and post it on YouTube. We need to keep a balanced look and not jump to conclusions.
I think that it is a good thing to think about though. Interesting that they're pushing mandatory universal health insurance right now.
I also see this as a good reason to support Ron Paul. He is all about getting the government out of everything as much as possible. I think he's swung a little to hard in that direction but at least it's in the right direction. For instance he believes in legalization of drugs and no death penalty. However it's my belief what we need right now is the smallest government possible. If what that video says is true we need to be concerned primarily about cutting the government down to size. We can than move back in the right direction later.

Ha ha, that was great. Had me worried for a second.

It's a hoax. The Amero and the NAU does not exist, nor do plans for it. Go to www.snopes.com to find out. It's just some scenes from a movie, the Zietgeist.

All right folks, let us stop and think. We have all studied history haven't we? Now, what have we learned from history? Anthing? Think about Hitler. He was insane and his goals and agenda were "unthinkable." But the unthinkable is now history. How can that be? I'll tell you how. Millions of decent lawabiding citizens were mildly disinterested, gullible, lazy, and said, "It is not my responsibility," or "if this was something to be concerned about my government or the media would tell me so." Sinful people are unwilling to take individual responsibility and ownership. That demands too much effort. Sad to say, I hear the same kind of apathy coming from you people on this list.

In the USA we have a Constitution that says we the people are the governement. If the people do not rise up and hold the elected officals accountable, then they will continue to move a head with whatever agenda seems best for them.

Watch the video at the link below and then come back and continue this conversation. Those who deny that there could be a conspiracy unfolding right now know nothing, NOTHING! about history. This, my friends is exactly what the men who seek power and grab it are counting on.

I don't know if the above comments were directed at me or not, but in any case, I feel obligated to defend myself.

I have not implied that it didn't matter who did it. I have expressed doubt as to whether or not all these conspiracy theories are real—but never said it didn't matter who it was. I watched the video, yes. It was good for a laugh, but everything contained was fiction. There is no plan for a North American Union, or an Amero. Someone said that the people controlling the media are the same who are behind the conspiracy and this whole war on terror is a hoax. Why, then, WHY WHY WHY are the media so against it?!?!??!?! They hate it!!! Because of them, most of the Americans hate it. How can they be in league with Bush and the government to do this if they hate it so much? Let me say this. They would JUMP at an opportunity to make Bush look bad. Anything to slander or defame him would be like giving meat to a hound. They would devour it.

I would like to say something here, something that has been overlooked, I think. George W. Bush is a professed Christian. Events in his life clearly portray that he is, indeed, regenerate. Therefore, as a man, he deserves the same respect as any other Christian you know. We are Brothers in Christ—treat him like one. Secondly, as President, in a position of authority, we owe him respect in that regard as well. I don't give a fig for these conspiracy theories about 911. That video only convinced me that it's all a fraud. There may have been strange things going on, and perhaps some of the governmental people were in league with Osama Bin Laden, but that is not the entire government. The fact is, all these videos and "research" that the people here refer to, they are hoaxes. Albeit very elaborate, but they are fraudulent. The fact is, the planes crashed into the Two Towers, the Pentagon, PA, etc. It happened. I can't convince you, and you certainly can't convince me. So far, all I've seen and heard gives me all the more confidence in what I heard first.

TheWylff wrote:
I have not implied that it didn't matter who did it. I have expressed doubt as to whether or not all these conspiracy theories are real—but never said it didn't matter who it was. I watched the video, yes. It was good for a laugh, but everything contained was fiction. There is no plan for a North American Union, or an Amero. Someone said that the people controlling the media are the same who are behind the conspiracy and this whole war on terror is a hoax. Why, then, WHY WHY WHY are the media so against it?!?!??!?! They hate it!!! Because of them, most of the Americans hate it. How can they be in league with Bush and the government to do this if they hate it so much? Let me say this. They would JUMP at an opportunity to make Bush look bad. Anything to slander or defame him would be like giving meat to a hound. They would devour it.

I would like to say something here, something that has been overlooked, I think. George W. Bush is a professed Christian. Events in his life clearly portray that he is, indeed, regenerate. Therefore, as a man, he deserves the same respect as any other Christian you know. We are Brothers in Christ—treat him like one. Secondly, as President, in a position of authority, we owe him respect in that regard as well. I don't give a fig for these conspiracy theories about 911. That video only convinced me that it's all a fraud. There may have been strange things going on, and perhaps some of the governmental people were in league with Osama Bin Laden, but that is not the entire government. The fact is, all these videos and "research" that the people here refer to, they are hoaxes. Albeit very elaborate, but they are fraudulent. The fact is, the planes crashed into the Two Towers, the Pentagon, PA, etc. It happened. I can't convince you, and you certainly can't convince me. So far, all I've seen and heard gives me all the more confidence in what I heard first.

Amen. Are the media trying to trick us? They are pretending to be against Iraq when really they are for it? Does that make any sense at all? If so their trick back fired.

No one ever said that the entire government was involved.

There are just to many inconsistencies in what the media is saying for me to just believe what they say on Snopes. That is only one source saying it is false. Maybe there are others, I don't know. I am convinced that things are amiss in our government.

LadyEowyn wrote:No one ever said that the entire government was involved.

There are just to many inconsistencies in what the media is saying for me to just believe what they say on Snopes. That is only one source saying it is false. Maybe there are others, I don't know. I am convinced that things are amiss in our government.

I didn't say there wasn't anything amiss. Actually, there has been things amiss in the United States' government since it BEGAN. Since day one it's had problems. They've only grown since then. Of course there are things wrong. But a secret that big would have be to be known throughout most of the government. Somehow, the President would know, and along with him many other things. The media—half of what you hear you shouldn't believe, and the other half is false. But the simple fact is: if the media and the governmental conspirators are linked—why do they hate this "War on Terror"? Why do they hate Bush? Why? They hate his guts, mostly because he's a Christian and doing what he thinks is best for the country. The fact is, there is no Amero, which is what Snopes disproved. The Snopes website is devoted to finding out the truth behind these things—that part in the video was fiction.

LadyEowyn wrote:No one ever said that the entire government was involved.

There are just to many inconsistencies in what the media is saying for me to just believe what they say on Snopes. That is only one source saying it is false. Maybe there are others, I don't know. I am convinced that things are amiss in our government.

I am convinced that things are amiss in our government, too. But, I'm not convinced that our government was behind 9/11, or that this North American Union deal actually happened. I need credible sources before I believe either one... So far I don't see any source that shows me why I should believe these theories.

Who died and made Barbara and David Mikkelson, the Final Authority in Matters of Truth?

Direct quote from their site:

Q: How do I know the information you've presented is accurate?

A: We don't expect anyone to accept us as the ultimate authority on any topic, which is why our site's name indicates that it contains reference pages. Unlike the plethora of anonymous individuals who create and send the unsigned, unsourced e-mail messages that are forwarded all over the Internet, we show our work. The research materials we've used in the preparation of any particular page are listed in the bibliography displayed at the bottom of that page so that readers who wish to verify the validity of our information may check those sources for themselves.

In their page addressing the NAU they list
NOT ONE SINGLE VERIFYING SOURCE

See link below:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/nau.asp

Wow! I'm so glad I looked at Snopes.com so that I know it's all a hoax. I can sleep peacefully tonight.

Sheep to the slaughter.........*Shakes Head*

You really think there is this big NAU going on? That's ridiculous. Besides, WHY would they hide it? The EU wasn't some super-secret conspiracy or anything. Why should it be different here? Do you really think this Amero business is anything but hooey? It's not believable. The video was fiction. Let me ask you this. Whoever did the video on youtube, how do they know it's true? Where did THEY hear it?

Edit: Common sense tells me more than Snopes. Give me one reason to believe what I read on the video. One source verifying it. It's a hoax. Like I said a well-done hoax, but a hoax nonetheless. It would be a great script for a movie, maybe I should look into that.

I somehow doubt you can fake a CNN Broadcast. How are you going to convince that reporter to say all that stuff about the NAU?

Ron Paul believes the NAU Theory. I doubt he would announce this to the american public unless he had convincing proof that it is true. He has access to far more sensitive information than you or I.

Although the 'quixotic candidate' Ron Paul has been attacked for believing in a North American Union conspiracy theory, this belief in "fiction" is posted as policy on official government websites and its related issues have been continuously covered by MSM news anchors that include at least CNN's Lou Dobbs, Glenn Beck and Larry King.

See link below:

http://www.jonesreport.com/articles/061207_nafta_real.html

The idea of an amero is ridiculous! Wikipedia though not being the best source of information denies any definite plans for the amero. The idea is ridiculous though because the Dollar is already used in Canada and the USA so 2 of the 3 countries. Also the American Dollar is already standard currency in several countries besides America.

I'm not convinced. Personally, I don't think Bush would be a part of it. Frankly, I just don't see us converting to the Amero just like that. It's too big a switch. But believe what you will.

And about the CNN broadcast—it wouldn't be too hard to fake it. They fake stuff like that in movies all the time.

Let me ask you this: do you really believe that video was telling the truth in everything they said? It could be there are plans to make an NAU—but I don't think they actually decided anything back in 05.

Well since the name is silly therefore all of this MUST be an ellaborate hoax. Glad you showed me the light.

And about the CNN broadcast—it wouldn't be too hard to fake it. They fake stuff like that in movies all the time.

Stop rapid-fire posting for ten minutes and read this page.

http://www.jonesreport.com/articles/061207_nafta_real.html

but I don't think they actually decided anything back in 05.

On what grounds?

Judicial Watch Releases Pentagon Records from “North American Forum” Meetings

Defense Secretary, Senior Military and Staff Met with Mexican & Canadian Officials over “Continental Prosperity in the New Security Environment”

(Washington, DC) Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption, today released documentsobtained November 2006 under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) from U.S. Northern Command (NORTHCOM). The documents concern the participation of NORTHCOM Commander, Admiral Timothy Keating, NORTHCOM Political Advisor Deborah Bolton, and Plans, Policy & Strategy Director Major General Mark Volcheff in a meeting of the “North American Forum” at the Banff Springs Hotel in Banff, Canada on September 12-14, 2006. A similar request for records concerning forum participation by then-Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and his entourage is still pending with the Pentagon.

The records include: 1) Proposed comments for Admiral Keating’s speech to the North American Forum; 2) Presentation outlines with handwritten marginal notes and comments from Ms. Bolton; 3) Policy papers; 4) Biographic sketches of participants; and, 5) Notes from Major General Volcheff.The North American Forum presentations discussed immigration and border enforcement; full economic and energy integration including infrastructure and transportation; a North American investment fund; and common customs and duties. The idea of a carbon tax was raised as a means to combat so-called global warming. References to the Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP) occur throughout the documents.

The notes for the presentations document the need to overcome popular opposition to North American integration: “To what degree does a concept of North America help/hinder solving problems between the three countries?…While a vision is appealing working on the infrastructure might yield more benefit and bring more people on board (‘evolution by stealth’).”

“It is not encouraging to see the phrase ‘evolution by stealth’ in reference to important policy debates such as North American integration and cooperation,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “These documents provide more information to Americans concerned about the Security and Prosperity Partnership. The more transparency, the better.”

to read NORTHCOM Cover Letter
http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2007/NORTHCOMCoverLtr.pdf

to read Forum Opening Remarks
http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2007/ADMKeatingDocsBanff.pdf

to read Bolton Agenda and Notes
http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2007/POLADBoltonNotesBanff.pdf

to read Volcheff Agenda and Notes
http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2007/MGVolcheffNotesBanff.pdf

to read more about the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP)
http://www.judicialwatch.org/SPP.shtml


REMEMBER YOUR 4 POST PER THREAD PER DAY LIMIT GUYS

Thanks for posting more links. Now we can actually see where you're getting your information.

TheWylff wrote:Ha ha, that was great. Had me worried for a second.

It's a hoax. The Amero and the NAU does not exist, nor do plans for it. Go to www.snopes.com to find out. It's just some scenes from a movie, the Zietgeist.

I don't give a fig for these conspiracy theories about 911. That video only convinced me that it's all a fraud. There may have been strange things going on, and perhaps some of the governmental people were in league with Osama Bin Laden, but that is not the entire government. The fact is, all these videos and "research" that the people here refer to, they are hoaxes. Albeit very elaborate, but they are fraudulent.

You are failing to see that you are engaged in the very thing that you accuse others of. Several in this discussion are providing data of some sort to argue their position. Whereas you just declare it isn't so, it's a hoax or all false. Please demonstrate that the news reports in the Zietgeist video are fake. www.snopes.com is not concrete and someone has already reported what evidence they provide.

YoungStonewall wrote:On what grounds?

Judicial Watch Releases Pentagon Records from “North American Forum” Meetings

Defense Secretary, Senior Military and Staff Met with Mexican & Canadian Officials over “Continental Prosperity in the New Security Environment”

(Washington, DC) Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption, today released documentsobtained November 2006 under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) from U.S. Northern Command (NORTHCOM). The documents concern the participation of NORTHCOM Commander, Admiral Timothy Keating, NORTHCOM Political Advisor Deborah Bolton, and Plans, Policy & Strategy Director Major General Mark Volcheff in a meeting of the “North American Forum” at the Banff Springs Hotel in Banff, Canada on September 12-14, 2006. A similar request for records concerning forum participation by then-Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and his entourage is still pending with the Pentagon.

The records include: 1) Proposed comments for Admiral Keating’s speech to the North American Forum; 2) Presentation outlines with handwritten marginal notes and comments from Ms. Bolton; 3) Policy papers; 4) Biographic sketches of participants; and, 5) Notes from Major General Volcheff.The North American Forum presentations discussed immigration and border enforcement; full economic and energy integration including infrastructure and transportation; a North American investment fund; and common customs and duties. The idea of a carbon tax was raised as a means to combat so-called global warming. References to the Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP) occur throughout the documents.

The notes for the presentations document the need to overcome popular opposition to North American integration: “To what degree does a concept of North America help/hinder solving problems between the three countries?…While a vision is appealing working on the infrastructure might yield more benefit and bring more people on board (‘evolution by stealth’).”

“It is not encouraging to see the phrase ‘evolution by stealth’ in reference to important policy debates such as North American integration and cooperation,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “These documents provide more information to Americans concerned about the Security and Prosperity Partnership. The more transparency, the better.”

to read NORTHCOM Cover Letter
http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2007/NORTHCOMCoverLtr.pdf

to read Forum Opening Remarks
http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2007/ADMKeatingDocsBanff.pdf

to read Bolton Agenda and Notes
http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2007/POLADBoltonNotesBanff.pdf

to read Volcheff Agenda and Notes
http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2007/MGVolcheffNotesBanff.pdf

to read more about the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP)
http://www.judicialwatch.org/SPP.shtml

After further research I think that there is very likely elements of truth in that first video link provided by Hornblower. However I was inclined to through the whole thing out as totally false because of the over reacting in it. I don't think that the Amero is real at all. However from research on the links YoungStonewall posted I think that there is definitely going on. I don't think it's as eminent as the video link posted by Hornblower claimed. Judicial Watch seems to be a good organization that is trust worthy. All this said I think that we should be careful not to jump to conclusion and over react to anything we read on the internet. However we should be on guard against things like this which could turn into something bad.

I don't have time to get into it all right now, but like I said, the BIGGEST thing in this whole deal that is obviously false, is that the media are not owned by the government, and how can the war on terror be fake if the media hate it and hate George Bush? The movie claims that the media are on the side of the government and are covering this all up. Then why do they hate the war in Iraq with all their guts and everyone elses, too? Things don't line up. The media would jump at a chance to say ANYTHING bad about Bush, they hate him. If he's involved, why do they hate him so much? Things don't make sense....not like that they don't...

Here is some similar media-manipulation at work a little closer to home:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV8sN1UngFY

how can the war on terror be fake

I never said it was fake, it is very real and many American lives have been sacrificed in it's pursuit. Even in this we see the hand of God at work, growing the church in both Iraq and Afghanistan. However dispite what the media might want you to believe, the church (and the people of Iraq) had far more freedom under Saddam than under the current regime.

The media would jump at a chance to say ANYTHING bad about Bush, they hate him. If he's involved, why do they hate him so much?

For one, this Grand Scheme is far, far bigger than G. W. Bush, he is simply a pawn (albeit a rather highly placed pawn) in a vast chess game. Many of the pieces on the board are unaware of the fact they are being controlled. They make money, they gain power, and they don't ask why. The same goes for the media, the CEO's makes their billions and they don't care how or at whom's expense. The total depravity of the heart of man takes care of the rest. They don't have to micro-manage media-spin or liberal slant, it comes naturally to the reprobate.


Here are some good quotes that speak to what we are discussing:

“Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive.” C.S. Lewis

“This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.” - Plato

“When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty and there is nothing to fear from them, then he is always stirring up some war or other, in order that the people may require a leader.” - Plato

"The liberties of our country, the freedoms of our civil Constitution are worth defending at all hazards; it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors. They purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood. It will bring a mark of everlasting infamy on the present generation – enlightened as it is – if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of designing men." -Samuel Adams

“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy” - James Madison

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the
servants of tyranny a good conscience” - Albert Camus

“The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves.” - Unknown

“Today the tyrant rules not by club or fist, but disguised as a market researcher, he shepherds his flocks in the ways of utility and comfort.” Marshall McLuhan

“The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home.” - James Madison

“A great wave of oppressive tyranny isn't going to strike, but rather a slow seepage of oppressive laws and regulations from within will sink the American dream of liberty” George Baumler

“There are historic situations in which refusal to defend the inheritance of a civilization, however imperfect, against tyranny and aggression may result in consequences even worse than war” Reinhold Niebuhr

“Necessity, the tyrant's plea” John Milton

“Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day; but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing [a people] to slavery.” Thomas Jefferson quotes

YoungStonewall wrote:However dispite what the media might want you to believe, the church (and the people of Iraq) had far more freedom under Saddam than under the current regime.

Whoa, back this up, please. With credible sources. It's useless to just say that without showing where you get that from.

Actually, I have another suggestion. Why don't we have some more threads so people can stay on topic better. One for discussing whether or not our government was behind 9/11. One for the North American Union & the Amero. One for the freedom of the church in Iraq under different regimes. I think that would help us better request/provide sources for *specific* things. I know that these issues can be related, but I would still request separate threads.

Just my suggestion.

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